Hello Everybody,
今日は 皆-さん,

I want to say: "What time is it now in Tokyo?"

1)とうきょう は、 いま 何時 です か。
2)とうきょう では いま 何時 です か。
3)とうきょう でわ いま 何時 です か。

Which is the the most correct one?
I saw the 1st one in a lesson on the web.
In my opinion, the 2nd or the 3rd one is all right. In Turkish too, we say "Tokyo'da ....."
ども ありがとう ございます。
mikazuki_59

The first one is most correct. Don't know what the rule is, but wa sounds most correct. Actually, any of these word orders would be correct.
* toukyou wa ima nanji desu ka?
* ima, toukyou wa nanji desu ka?
Actually, in casual spoken language, even this would work:
* ima nanji desu ka, toukyou wa?

Does someone else know the rule?
/Johan

Is the situation something like the one as follows?

You're in Turkey and firstly told me "It's HH:MM in Turkey now." and then ask me "What time is it in Tokyo?" (I'm actually living in Chiba but well in Japan we just have one time zone named JST)"

Then you can say either (1) or (2).


1)とうきょう は、 いま 何時 です か。<no problem>
2)とうきょう では いま 何時 です か。<slightly more formal>
3)とうきょう でわ いま 何時 です か。<でわ is misspelling of では, although the pronunciation is "wa" not "ha">

If you did not told me your time, then (2) sounds a little odd. In the case use (1).


-----
I guess both of them can be understood as "omitting 時刻は":

1) 東京は (= 東京の時刻は) いま 何時ですか。
2) 東京では [時刻は] いま 何時ですか。

And yes, as Johan said the word order is not restricted to one (... btw this same property in Swedish seems hard to master for me... :-p)

Finally although the word ども do exist as short and casual form of どうも, I guess you meant "どうもありがとうございます。"


maz

(this post was edited relatively heavily after tony's next post)


p.s. johan could you tell me how to kill the function which automatically convert characters to emoticons? Is there something like <nowiki> tag in MediaWiki?

maz,

If one was asking "What time is it in Tokyo (as opposed to some other place just mentioned in conversation)?" would "東京では" make sense with "で" meaning "at" or "in"?

Can you think of an example where は could be replaced by では with the resulting sentence sounding more formal, in which で cannot possibly be interpreted as "at" or "in" or "by means of"?

EDICT gives 今では as a possible translation for "nowadays," but there is no example sentence in the Tanaka corpus containing this phrase. Could you give a natural example of how this might be used, in which 今 by itself would be less natural? I would prefer an example in which 今では does not occur as the topic of the entire sentence, if that is possible.

Thanks,
Tony

P.S.: Couldn't one also ask "東京で(今)何時ですか"? Is this any different in meaning or feeling of formality than the others?

Yes, I think で means "at" or "in". So the subject should be 時刻, I guessed.

うーん... I don't imagine the case you mention right now. Actually 東京（日本）ではいま5:30 AMなので すごく眠いです

Lemme answer your post script first.
東京で(今)何時ですか is not used.

My quick *natural* candidates are:
東京はいま何時ですか？ <probably most natual>
東京っていま何時ですか？ <casual version>
東京ではいま何時ですか？ <responce to other time>
東京のいまの時刻 {時間} (って) 教えてもらえますか？ <"Can you tell me the current time in Tokyo?">

----
"今では" means "but now"

* It used to be [foo], but now it's [bar].
* At first it was [foo], but now it's [bar].

So basically "では" seems to indicate the contrast.

• Minnesota は 10 時ですけど、千葉は何時ですか？ <most nattural perhaps>


• Minnesota では 10 時ですけど、千葉はいま何時ですか？ <okay>


• Minnesota は 10 時ですけど、千葉では何時ですか？ <okay>


• Minnesota では 10 時ですけど、千葉では何時ですか？ <okay>

ところで、when you mention old days you cannot use では, instead use "には".

1. 1980年 には FORTRAN 77 を使っていましたけど、今は C# を使っています。 <okay>


2. 1980年 には FORTRAN 77 を使っていましたけど、今では C# を使っています。 <okay>

They -- は and には -- differ slightly. Former is rather plain, does not include negative nuance to FORTRAN 77. Other persons might use the language today. On the other hand, from the latter you may feel the atmosphere that FORTRAN 77 is obsolete and might not be used (widely) *nowadays*.

Also be aware of the following mistakes:

• 1980年 は FORTRAN 77 を使っていましたけど、今は C# を使っています。 <は alone is incorrect>


• 1980年 では FORTRAN 77 を使っていましたけど、今は C# を使っています。 <では is incorrect>

I don't think these fulfill your requirements completely but for now,


maz

Hi,
I have been discussing this topic at home, and the conclusion is that as Maz says, if talking about a topic explicitly or implicitly, then dewa works. Otherwise it wouldn't work.

The idea is as follows:
"wa" marks the topic of the sentence. Therefore, it works saying:

• Toukyou wa 5ji desu. = regarding tokyo, it is 5pm".
  

However the construct "dewa" marks the place of an action. So it needs a subject, to tell what we are talking about. Based on this reasoning, the following sentences would work.

• Toukyou dewa jikoku wa 5ji desu. = regarding what happens in tokyo, the time is 5pm.
  


• toukyou dewa ame ga futte imasu. = regarding in Tokyo, rain is falling.
  


• toukyou wa ame ga futte imasu. = regarding tokyo, rain is falling.
  


• toukyou wa ame desu. = regarding tokyo, rain is falling.
  

Maz, thanks for taking time to post answers this late. Oyasuminasai.

/Johan